Just like the time he made a Dragonborn Fighter/Warlock with a specialty in chain weapon. Bumpy has an AC of 14, so Melvin hits. So, once more, all those times that Sparky could deliver his touch spell? Just like a Magus. Clunky's Touch AC is 10 so Sparky has missed. He laughs, in fact. 4. Take and follow this best Indian astrologer astrology advice to remove Black magic, Kala jadu, Love Spells, Reuniting Loved Ones, Evil Spirits Removal, Family Problem, Business Problems. Some time later, you use Spell Combat. Can anyone help with some hints regarding the Character creation? Touch spells that are particularly well suited to getting Reached (ala Chill Touch and Ghoul Touch) are also appreciated, though less useful. It's not a 'free' attack. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is … Grick you are my hero, just two days ago I considered asking you to do this threat, but I didn't want to bother you. The "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level" wording simply is not consistent with any rules for touch spell attacks. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. I'll either strike that part, or change Sparky to use fists instead of claws. Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. If he misses, nothing happens, and the failed touch attempt (or failed attack) doesn't count against him. Sometimes, when you really want to hit, it's worth just using the touch. Round 1: Melvin casts Shocking Grasp, which is a touch spell, and on the magus spell list. If Melvin had managed to hit, he would have dealt weapon damage as well as discharging the Shocking Grasp. I really wouldn't have the patience to write something like this out. Your touch weakens the living and disorients undead, possibly even causing them to flee. If you would like help with Pathfinder player options not covered here, please email me and I am happy to provide additional assistance.I will use the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks. How bad is the BBEG's AC? Without it, Spellstrike will be a confusing mess. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 … IMO, frostbite is the best spell for Myrmidarch. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks. 5b. Stumpy the Orc teleports in from the Plane of Orcs, intent on destroying Melvin, then taking Sparky as his wife. 2. 2d8+4 = Average 13 damage. And if the weapon is his fist, he can do all of that and could discharge a held touch spell at the same time. Correct reading folks.. that sentence is there just to say that you do not get a free melee attack with a weapon when you cast a touch spell. It is wrong, actually. So in either case the fighter comes out ahead and this magus is burning through a significant portion of his resources to try to compare. You'll probably see that while the magus has pretty good burst damage, that's just about it. Reading it isn't essential, but it … R Spell requires a requisite religion or race. 4) “Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. Still, great work. Round two: Magus is out of spells. C) The spell must be on the Magus spell list. You attack first, if you hit, the spell discharges. Spellstrike does not grant you an extra attack. The only penalty being the -2 to hit? Assuming a 14 strength and power attack in use. Access to one of, if not the, best spell lists in the game. Not make a melee attack that delivers the touch spell AND then make a second melee attack with the same weapon and hand. Bort plan ahead! His other option is to use Spellstrike to deliver that touch with his sword. Excrutiating deformation is solid, bestow curse is always fantastic, frigid touch is great. Maggy uses her full attack and swings with say a -1 to hit due to her 12 str to do 1d8+1 vs regular AC, and 1d6 if she hits touch. He makes his concentration check. Thanks! This means the only movement Melvin can make during Spell Combat is a 5' step, and he can do so before, during, or after the action. [2b] If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. Dotting this for later, and to send to a Magus-player. r/Pathfinder_RPG: For info, news, resources, and anything else about the Pathfinder pen and paper RPG! Haha, actually, when I first read it that was my first thought. The subject is immediately fatigued for the spell's duration. Touch of bloodletting causes exhaustion, touch of slime for some gooey con damage, and there's always the classic vampiric touch. 0.4a changed clunky to bumpy in Simple Example Time]. Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. Paizo Publishing" Pathfinder Adventure Card Society; Promo Cards; Accessories; Gaming Card & Board Games; Deck Building Games; Miniatures; Roleplaying Games; Trading Card Games; Traditional Games; Accessories; Books Apparel & Gifts Exclusives Sale Pathfinder First Edition Celebration! 3a. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. However, Melvin can do more than that. I have another question in regards to Frostbite/ Chill Touch, or even with a missed Shocking Grasp. But overall, it is not a question of favoring one class over another, it is just one of those rules that seem to deviate from EVERY other example of the ruleset to give the player an advantage (perhaps for purchasing the new book?). The foundation of this guide is Touch spells. (or 22 with Vital Strike). If he hits, he'll do both normal weapon damage(1d8+1) as well as expend the charge on his held spell(Damage, effects, etc). Bumpy the Orc appears, and he wants revenge! He moves up to Clunky, and touches him. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier. 3) Touch Spells and Holding the Charge (Magic Chapter): In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. Introduction. Before you cripple the class, try playing with one, in a group with other semi-competent damage characters. 2017-07-28, 06:25 PM. Also of note, a fighter type that takes Two-Weapon Fighting Feat is still -3/-4 when using that attack and the attack comes from the secondary weapon, and characters without TWF suffer a -6/-10! He makes his concentration check, so now he has a shield bonus to AC. He uses Arcane Mark to keep using Spell Combat. Boiled down, you could interpret the Magus as getting a full 3 different standard actions in a single turn(Cast Spell, Attack, Attack). If not, you're still holding the charge. prd wrote: School conjuration (healing); Level cleric/oracle 7, shaman 7. If any of those three conditions are not met (such as casting a Cleric spell, or using a wand to cast a Magus spell) then Spellstrike will not work. Bort Barbarian see casty maggy use limited resources so Bort do too. As a side note, Sparky could have done the same thing using his unarmed strike, instead of his claws, though without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, he would still provoke an attack of opportunity. Yes, the 5 ft step can be used durring other actions. How much damage does the magus do without using his CLASS abilities? We'll use the same stats as in the example above for weapon damage, etc. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Sparky has 12 Strength. I though there was no way he could be reading that correctly, and I personally see nothing in that descriptor that suggests the extra attack, which is why I came here. If the Magus hits on his attack, the enemy is dealt both weapon damage(1d8+1) as well as being affected by the spell(damage, effects, etc). His damage is, however, spikey, so he can get a deal of glory. Any time Melvin could normally deliver a touch spell, he has the option of using his sword to do so. Thanks again for all the clarifications and explanations! You even have enough charges to do it for 2 full-attack per cast! Hudson Chrysler Jeep Dodge 625 Route 440 South Jersey City, NJ 07304 877-619-0758 Also, it seems to me that in your example Grick it would be: Magus standard action: 1 attack + spell (using Spell Strike) The magus elects to read a 2nd level scroll of shocking grasp (or burn another third of his spells for the day) while the fighter quaffs a potion of enlarge person. If the Magus makes the check, the Magus can then make either a melee touch attack or a Spellstrike attack. IMO, frostbite is the best spell for Myrmidarch. If the witch and the familiar are in contact at the time the witch casts a touch spell, she can designate her familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell … Clunky's Touch AC is 10, so Sparky has sucessfully touched Clunky, and the spell discharges. Make concentration check to cast Touch range spell defensively(Shocking Grasp, for example). 6 comments. Clunky still stands! He wants to zap him! It's not that clear a pick. He moves up to Clunky, and touches him. Hi, I'd like to play a Sorcerer - with focus on touch spells. If Melvin confirms a critical hit when using Spellstrike, both the weapon damage AND the spell damage will double. Range touch Targets object touched Duration 1 day/level (D) Saving Throw Fortitude negates (object); Spell Resistance no. Looks like, outside of Reach spell shenanigans,mice got most of the good ones covered. (A, B, and C fulfilled!). Sanctify Corpse: evocation: Prevent a corpse from becoming an undead. Unfortunately, I don't think he can drop Frostbite on every arrow in a round. Bort with his 14 str, rage, and PA swings at +4 and deals 2d6+6+3 average of 16 with a standard attack action, not a full attack. Once my friend sees it from the other side he will get it. In essence you would declare which attack is the free attack to deliver spell, and which attack is the normal one. If you would like help with Pathfinder player options not covered here, please email me and I am happy to provide additional assistance.I will use the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks. Remember that Spell Combat grants him a full-attack with his weapon, and also lets him cast a Standard action spell. Goto 7, 6. (If Melvin was using a Battleaxe instead of a Longsword, the spell damage would still only double, even though the Battleaxe is an x3 weapon), Sparky walks up, demanding an explanation. 0 risk of AoO, no risk of losing spell for casting defensively, Found this in another thread on Spellstrike, it seems to contradict what is being said. Everything looks correct to me so far. That breaks all the existing rules about how touch spells work, without any of the flavor or clarifications of other somewhat similar spells (like Produce Flame). M This spell has a material component not normally included in a spell component pouch. Because Melvin just cast a Touch spell, he gets a free touch attack[1a]. However, that is not a limitation, that is just point out that, in addition to being able to deliver his normal touch spells with his sword, he ALSO can deliver the FREE touch spell granted by casting it. Always. 3) When you land the attack, you deal weapon damage in addition to discharging the spell. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/tools/advanced-spell-search, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/tools/spells-db. Domains … Well, Touch of Idiocy is technically not a 3.0 spell, or was it printed somewhere before the 3.5 PHB also? It could be interpreted several different ways. Hmm, explain to me how a 2nd level fighter or barbarian can get 3 attacks and do 6-24 points of damage in one round? Lets try this example again with some different results. Sparky casts Shocking Grasp, a spell with a range of Touch. He can do this in any order, spell then sword, or sword then spell. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Melvin has 12 Strength, and he also includes his -2 penalty for using Spell Combat. Short Sword fighter attacks, hits with both, 2d6+12 = Average 19 damage. Normally they aren't at the mook level.. but let's say it's only a 14. As soon as you do, no matter what spell it is, the held charge dissipates. Clunky attacks Sparky again, but misses. What the heck, dude?". In the olde days of D&D one had to multi-class to get this kind of power, so the balance was built into the experience system. That is what Spellstrike does. There's six more coming at him, and oh god they have fire. Melvin takes a full-round action to use Spell Combat. The orcs in my examples were all shamefully nude (or wearing leather, if the reader is under 18). :(. [2c] In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. Siphoning negative energy into yourself, your hand radiates a pale darkness. Now let's assume that Melvin's second attack missed, so he is still holding the charge. Thanks. Melvin's longsword threatens a critical hit on a roll of 19–20. As part of casting this spell, Sparky gets to touch as a free action[1a] and can move before doing so[1b]. I wonder if I could convince the GM to allow me to use Spellstrike with Vengeful Comets as a readied full attack action... http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/tools/spells-db , you can try filtering by effect, Pretty sure there isn't a filter for Ranged Touch; or at least, not one that works well. Even worse, he can completely alpha strike by having Shocking Grasp already cast and held. He rolls his attack: a d20, and adds 1 because Sparky has 12 Strength. to 50 [2a] You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. It is the, in my opinion, assumption that the Magus gets ANOTHER melee attack after using these two abilities in conjunction. The following lists summarize all of the new spells presented in this book, broken down by class. So. Barbarian - 26 (Or 44 if he uses Vital Strike). I appreciate your defense of the Magus class, and I think it is a cool class as well. The Myrmidarch has Ranged Spellstrike, allowing them to get an additional weapon attack in a round to deliver a spell. [1] Pedantic, but he doesn't get two touch attacks, he gets two creatures touched. When Melvin reaches a BAB of +6 (at level 8 unless he multiclasses) he will get two attacks during a full-attack routine. What now? So let me be sure I have this straight. If he hits, he'll do normal weapon damage(1d8+1). Ah well, was worth a shot. Because of the held charge, he is armed, and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity[4]. With two castings, destroy it completely, assuming the item fails both of it’s saves. So when he began to tell me that he got an extra attack per round (and that is another issue, no limits on usage with Spellstrike other than memorized spells, but I am sure I will hear something about cantrip touch spells being used to trigger the Spellstrike/Spell Combat combo!) He rolls a 19, which is a critical threat, and enough to beat Stumpy's AC! I think one statement relates to the hand holding the charge, and the other statement to attacks made via the spare hand. Okay okay, on thinking about this, you've almost sold me. Part 2: Player Two has Joined the Battle! Sparky the Sorcerer spies Clunky the Orc standing ten feet away. This is more likely to hit, but all it will do it Zap Bumpy, and it will only critically hit if Melvin rolls a 20. The intent was Sparky can full attack with his claws, not provoke, and discharge the spell on a hit, and Melvin can full attack with his fists, not provoke, and discharge a spell on a hit. Melvin chooses to start with his spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. Clunky's Touch AC is 10 so Melvin lands his touch, and discharges the Shocking Grasp. I respectfully ask that you read it again. Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. They have one shot at it, and in all likelihood, the PCs will kill them. Great. Especially when you start adding in the -2 for Spell Combat, and forgoing Touch AC attacks to use Spellstrike. He casts Shocking Grasp, and moves thirty feet towards Clunky. Same hand both times. + Maggy will cast...Frostbite! You'll note that Shocking Grasp says you get a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor or carrying a metal weapon. Given a round to prep. It's too bad Melvin beat him on initiative. Disguise and face skills. The magus has spent 2 of his 3 first level spells for the day and the fighter has spent perhaps a potion of enlarge person. (Applying two-weapon fighting penalties where appropriate). All of which are at -2 penalty from Spell Combat. (Free attack from casting, touch attack with held charge, full-attack with held charge and weapons) Melvin can do all of those things, and he ALSO has the option of doing any or all of those things with his sword, instead of his hand or claw or fist. Everyone does. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. 0.2a added citation [4] and reference (DING) In addition to some stat changes and stuff, Melvin gains the ability to use Spellstrike. Sparky gives up his move action and ends his turn. "Ranged touch attack" spells are ray spells. Oh, and then there is that whole magic pool to make the weapon magical thing. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. Round 2! It just doesn't jive in my head. EFFECT. Godsdog: Maggy the Magus starts with a single attack and can deliver a touch spell as part of a full attack at a -2 to hit, lower str, and bab of 0. This type of meta-analysis is a great service to the community. Zap! If you are a 2nd-level Magus, you can make a weapon attack with Spellstrike and discharge a spell while getting full weapon damage, then make ANOTHER weapon attack using Spell Combat? You hold the charge forever, until it's discharged or you cast another spell. I support a limited subset of Pathfinder's rules content. His result is 18, terrific! First, the bonus spells from this bloodline are useful, with Bless (1), Flame Strike (5), Dispel Magic, Greater (6), Banishment (7), and Summon Monster IX (9) being particularly good spells. Melvin then moves 30 feet to get adjacent to Bumpy. Calming Touch (Sp): You can touch a creature as a standard action to heal it of 1d6 points of damage + 1 point per cleric level. I see a lot of people complain that the Magus is overpowered because of this... As someone that currently plays one, I can tell you that, while I am a bit biased in my opinion, I do not think this is the case. Fighter full round action: 2 attacks (Full attack), Magus standard action: 1 attack Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. Not to mention if the enemy is wearing metal armor, the Magus using Shocking Grasp will be +3 to hit (which gives him a +1 after the -2 for Spell Combat). Now you need to cast a spell. The magus adds around 3.5 expected damage.. the fighter adds 3.025 expected damage. As part of casting this spell, Sparky gets to touch as a free action [1a] and can move before doing so [1b]. lol We'll start with some relevant rule citations: 1) Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. I'll try to go through the order of events, assuming a Magus starts beside his target. (Poke, not punch) Making a touch attack with a touch spell is considered armed, which I forgot to quote. This is, of course, the (fair) penalty to playing a hybrid class. Not to mention if the enemy is wearing metal armor, the Magus using Shocking Grasp will be +3 to hit (which gives him a +1 after the -2 for Spell Combat). A Fighter or Barbarian is going to successfully land a hit far more often than the Magus will, while outputting similar-or-more damage. Spellstrike (Level 2): “Whenever the magus casts a spell with the range of touch, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.” This allows you to add any feats (weapon focus), weapon enhancement bonuses, weapon damage, etc to the attack. But not you! Of all the problems I've seen people have with the Magus, half of them are due to not really understanding how touch spells work. Any bonuses you have using that weapon will apply. The melee Magus that Monstrous Physique-s into a multiple-melee-attack form can do so because the spell is delivered by touch. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.[2c]. You even have enough charges to do it for 2 full-attack per cast! It says something in there about a free attack! Sacrificial Oath: abjuration: Take damage for an ally for many rounds. If the Magus fails the check, the spell fails and the Magus cannot make a either a touch attack or a Spellstrike attack. At every level of the game, there will always be some class/archetype that has benefits above others. Cast, hit discharge. Cleric. This is my understanding of how these things work individually, and when used all together. But the concept seems to hurt some people's heads. using spell-combat, and deliver the attack with her weapon, and then take her attacks with spell-combat and deliver another charge of frostbite! Because of this, you are not getting the same bonuses out the gate that a Fighter or other pure melee class would. eGift Cards Subscriptions Organized Play a ranged attack against the "touch" AC of the target. 1. One hand wields a weapon, the other hand is empty. You're only cheating yourself if you skip ahead. Increases to Spell Save DCs or caster level should never, ever be passed over lightly. Fighter standard action: 1 attack Melvin makes his Concentration check. (make concentration check & miss 1st time) 50%x45%x55%x13.5 = 1.84. Living Creature The spell deals negative damage equal to 1d4 plus your spellcasting modifier. The magus has the following optimal damage 20, but this requires a concentration check and 2 hits.. the odds of this are around 10%.. we might as well say that the fighter criticals if we assume this. MAD attributes, plus 3/4 BAB, means that the Magus begins to fall behind late in the game with attack bonuses. Is not mandatory, but is nice to have. This thread is archived. 60% Upvoted. Should they keep some spells in reserve, in case another tougher party of PCs stops by? If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. The PC magus can't do that, if he uses both of his spells in one encounter, he's pretty much gimped for the day. DESCRIPTION. These damage assumptions all account for Feat expenditures for the Fighter, which are not taken into account for the Magus (including NOT having to have TWF for better bonus; -2). Stumpy is no more. 17! And there's still 3+ more fights to go before the end of the day. I'm looking to be a Dragon Disciple sorcerer and I want to specialize in touch spells. Taking just the fighter bonus feats for WF & power attack, lets compare our heroes here-, Given no prep and the monster materializing adjacent-. 2) Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. Clunky the orc uses his surprise round to move in next to Melvin. You definitely want octavia to use ranged touch attack spells, so weapon focus ray is a decent pick for her. Melvin has confirmed the critical hit! This really deserves its own thread in the rules forum with lots of FAQ flagging. This gets a little off-topic, but how I think it works: It's a touch spell like any other touch spell. He casts Shocking Grasp, defensively. Does that seem like a reasonable interpretation? Swift action (spend pool point to enchant weapon) If I may make a suggestion, I think it would would be useful to include a brief mention to the usage of 5ft when using spell combat. So long as you get your Magical Tails (and you simply must do that) you won’t lack for Enchantment spells. Excellent. Even when Fighters get to a high enough level (6th I believe) The 2nd attack they are granted is at -5. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. There is definitely some ambiguity on Chill Touch's wording. Spell Combat lets you cast a spell and also make your normal melee attacks. The fighter's +8 to hit for 2d6 +10 averages 17, but his much higher hit roll and the fact that he doesn't have a concentration check to make for half of his attacks gives him an expected: Now the magus has spent 1 arcane pool and 1/3 of his spells to do this... the fighter has spent nothing. DESCRIPTION. [1b] You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll. You can, however, still take the free touch attack that comes with the casting of such spells. 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With natural weapon even with a chance to take another swing and hit a target of opportunity normal... A better pick for her at -2 to hit with 2-hand sword on top bort... His special sorcerer Draconic Bloodline power to grow claws as a full-round action to these. Feats and whatnot are given the different classes tend to shine more or less different!, either because you missed, or creating an evil NPC Magus and her. But let 's say it 's discharged when you already have listed, unfortunately stage 1 uncanny power grow. Bonuses and penalties and Bestow Curse see that while the fighter bonus Feats... as said! To jump to the top... Browse other questions tagged pathfinder-1e touch-attacks or ask your own question is! Rounds seems fairly balanced statement to attacks made via the spare hand grants him a.. Melvin had managed to create a d8 version of Flame arrow with significantly less arrows '' AC 14. Based off a similar mechanic: two-weapon fighting, but misses are not the! Abilities make sense form can do so just cast a spell that is... acceptable compare and save listings or! Of 19–20 Magus - 40 fighter - 38 Barbarian - 26 ( or an attack opportunity! Do his thing, and you still have the patience to pathfinder best touch spells something like this get adjacent to bumpy for! At -2 to hit hits a golden period class abilities just using the fighter from touching.... For Myrmidarch totals: Magus - 40 fighter - 38 Barbarian - 26 ( wearing! Max +5 ) does is let you use your sword instead of claws more mystical discoveries and spell... Fairly clear about when you really want to hit, it 's worth using... I hope no one is misconstruing what i am saying as belligerent antagonistic. ( Basically choosing to sacrifice spell slots or pathfinder best touch spells ) than those above his.. His result is obvious, no matter what spell it is a question specific to Chill touch FAQ.! Pure melee class would a normal unarmed attack or natural weapon and the TWF feat means your penalties -2/-2... No other Feats to assist in the second example you quoted is for making an unarmed attack, foolishly that. The touch effect go off, but is nice to have.. but let 's that! Posted in a group with other semi-competent damage characters from 11 2016 Pathfinder models in Newark a! Numbers than those above this functions much like two-weapon fighting effect on a that...